I stumbled across this video in one of my RSS feeds. Honestly, it is difficult to believe that people like this still exist. It is embarrassing. It just goes to show you that religion—in the worst sense of the word—is still alive and well. Frankly, it makes it that much more difficult to communicate the true nature of Jesus to the world.
David Wilcox, maybe my favorite singer-songwriter, captures this in his song called “Good Man” from the album Vista. It says,
Let me apologize in advance
For the way my friend behaves
He’ll pick a fight and take a holy stance
He’s so proud that he’s so savedI hope you don’t judge Jesus
By the things my friend will say
He holds a bible like a dagger
And he twists it just that wayHe just loves conversation—like a cat loves a bird
I guess he’s always been a good man—in the worst sense of the wordThe good knights went out to save the day
In the age of the crusades
A sharp sword on a tortured soul
They were sure the point was made
Any tool can be a weapon
If it’s used with that intent
The devil’s great at quoting scripture
And confusing what it meantSo all the evils done for Jesus —it is a history so absurd
But there will always be a good man—in the worst sense of the wordThey ‘jacked a plane to make a sneak attack
They were trained to die in flames
Their last words were to God above
Just to praise His holy nameFor all the terror and destruction
They felt no sense of shame
You gotta wonder why religion
Can make people so insaneBut their devotion was unquestioned—follow straight and never swerve
The devil always needs a good man—in the worst sense of the word”
This is the first thing I thought of when I saw the video above. By the way, David’s new album, “Open Hand” is fabulous. I highly recommend it.
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It is truly depressing. Sue showed me this yesterday. Much prayer is needed for those that may be confused…!
"Much prayer is needed for those that may be confused…! "
That means more than what you intended it to.
It's a shame that all the people on this little comment system are dishing out sorrow as if they're any less ignorant of what this church is actually protesting. The method might be crude but the truth stands on it's own. It is ignorance that's fueling this posts debate.
Salt irritates. All I'm reading is sugar.
I'm almost embarassed to admit that this church is in my hometown, although I've never heard of it. Fortunately, the entire town doesn't feel that way! There are several good churches in Canton.
Unfortunately, this guy is giving our town, and Christians in particular, a bad name. I pray that the Lord opens up his eyes and brings an end to this nonsense.
This is good to know. It seems like misguided zeal.
It does embarrass me, and it saddens me. In the end it illustrates the fact that true religion is a religion that requires we add knowledge to our faith. 2 Peter 1:5
Wow! This is pretty amazing stuff. I knew the Fighting Fundies were still out there but it makes the state of my residence (North Carolina) look pretty stupid. I do like the "pastor's" bib overalls.
The worst thing is that the media picks this kind of silly stuff up and it makes all Christians look crazy. Thankfully, I think this is a VERY minority position.
I hear you MH, but I did like the end of piece: "The church has 11(?) members but the pastor says it's growing." Yeah, right.
Thanks for posting this.
Absolutely there is a difference between religion and true faith, Jesus exposed it regularly.
These men seem to forget that the Pharisees were the religous leaders in Jesus day:
Matt 23:27
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
KJV (for the sake of argument, we'll show KJV, but I love the NLT)
I used to hold some of his same beliefs until reading the word for myself and seeing how Jesus loved the sinner and constantly corrected the "saint."
It is about relationship…first with God and then each other.
Great post, I was anticipating it after your tease last night!
Sue
Well if they want to waste their resourses and and money on books and fire instead of actually putting it to something useful then they are fools! i think the bible calls them. Lets see now do they actually measure the success of someone like TD Jakes who has impacted a number of generations of people then look at themselves and wonder why they only have 14 members? I know He said it's "Growing" but it won't last as they are irrelavent in a culture that needs things like New Living Translation to unpack more about God and the purpose He has for our lives.
All in all. They are sending themselves plummeting to an end.
If grace is found in this church, it truly would be amazing. Lord have mercy.
I wish I had thought of that and put it in the post!
Wow, this is a appalling. I'm a Baptist myself and am embarrassed by this. While my church does use the KJV from the pulpit, many of us in the congregation carry other versions. I haven't opened a KJV in years myself. The newer ones are so much easier to read and understand. True faith is a relationship with Jesus. It's much easier to have that 2 way communication if we understand the meaning.
It's no wonder there are only 14 members of the church. . .
I have no problem with anyone using the KJV. It is beautiful and majestic. But to damn all other versions? All you can say is “wow.”
This is sad for all the reasons stated. I can't imagine that they are having that much negative influence though. '14 members and growing'?
I think the only ones really losing are those 14 people…not mainstream Christianity.
Do you think anyone else is taking them seriously at all? (good or bad)
What is sad and tragic is THIS is what most people think of when they think of Christians these days. When Christians are mocked in the movies and television programs it's THIS stereotype they have in mind.
This brings to mind a story which prompted my husband to write a corny little song called "King James Version". When we were first married he worked for a Christian bookstore. An older woman came in and asked for a Bible. He took her to the NIV as it was the most popular and reliable translation. She looked at him very seriously and said "No son, what I want is a King James Version. If it was good enough for John the Baptist, it's good enough for me."
I had a friend at Bible School who told me she thought Jesus spoke in King James English! It was not difficult to educate her, but that is what her church had taught her. Maybe she went to Amazing Grace Baptist Church!
Yikes! These people are like the drunk cousin at a family reunion. Very embarrassing.
Gosh. I hope some day my name makes it on their burn list. I'm not saying an author is truly representing God because they have achieved success, but the reverse is also not valid. There are some outstanding individuals represented there. My standard response in any situation like this is – woe unto him who calls evil good and good evil. It is good to be valiant for the Lord, but the worst thing we can do is be a hindrance to His anointed.
I would be so scared to call anything that glorifies God "Satan's Bibles"!!!
I so agree with Gail…grace found here would be amazing!
I'm thankful that it is the kindness of our Savior that draws us to Him…Romans 2:4!
Thank you. I'm communicating with a young man on facebook who has no good thoughts about Jesus because of some of the Christians he's come around. I sent him your blog to show that many, many of us (and some who are quite important, like you Mr. Hyatt!) are also appalled and not willing to just be embarrassed and shove it under the carpet. Thanks again.
As with many cases of misguided zeal and ignorance, this gentlemen appears clueless about the history of the KJV as well as translation practices in general. For him to include the NASB as a fraud was quite comical. Unfortunately, the media won't report on the millions of other Christians out there today feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, and providing comfort to those that are in need.
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Ghandi.
I wonder if he would have said that if he had really met our Christ.
Oh wow! That quote hit the nail on the head indeed.
Sad! I think they are sincerely wrong. I beleive they want to do God's work ,but have been deceived, like Paul, the apostle,before he was an apostle. My uncle was an evangelist for a number of years, and he held that stand on the KJV. He was more than zealous, and completely blinded about this error. It is a divisive, misguided, deception straight from the Father of Lies.
Unbelievable! It's good to know he only has 14 members. It bothers me most that the media thought this was a story worth covering and didn't give any other view points from Christians on how they feel about the burning.
Hey, they are serving fried and bbq chicken, that's gotta count for something:-) But, does anyone really take these people seriously? I know they're out there, but not in great numbers, I think the larger tragedy than burnt bibles are bibles that are never read.
Someone needs to educate that "pastor" that the Bible was spoken by God and written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek…..not in the Kings English. It is sad that the media has found him and his congregation of 14, for they do not represent Christianity.
Do they not know that the KJV is a translated from Hebrew/Greek as well as the others they are burning? Jesus didn't speak Elizabethan English. If they wanted to read an "unadulterated" version wouldn't they be reading Hebrew & Greek original text? Stupidity gone to seed. It's a publicity stunt for him and his 14 members. I wonder what they think of people who don't speak or read English?
People like this don't embarrass me anymore. I've walked with Christ long enough, studied the Word and have some rough experiences with religion to see the difference between religion and relationship. Look at the fruit of people's lives. I think Joyce Meyer (spelled Joyce Myer by their church) said "out of balance is the devil's playground".
Truly grieves my heart. And unfortunately, it's getting extensive publicity. Well, knowing God, He'll work it out for good :D!!
My questions to anyone who condemns others as heretics is this: Doesn't Jesus love them too? Why the violence of burning books? And the last one: Do you really want to be aligned with Hitler's book burning practices? Yikes!
By the same argument on the other side of the coin, why would we want to write books in the first place? Doesn't that align us with those who generated Communist propaganda? Not every book burner is Hitler and I can name a great many books that ought to be burned. The disagreement is in which ones.
This is the exact mindset of the Taliban and their ilk. Given complete freedom of action in their community, there might well be be more than books in that fire- there would be some heretics and heathens. While our courts have gone way past original intent, it is these types of folks that were in mind when the First Amendment was in debate.
That's down right slanderous. I very much doubt that this church has any thought of going out and killing those with whom they disagree.
As a matter of fact, the First Amendment offers as much protection who wish to voice their displeasure through book burning as it does to those who write the words in the first place. As long as they own the books, they can burn them.
I seen this issue come up, from time to time, my whole life. I'm in a Baptist association in which every few years or so there is some church that plans to vote that we pass a resolution to only use the KJV or something similar. There is usually a bunch of discussion before the meeting that's similar to what we see here and then when the issue actually comes up (which it usually doesn't), it either dies without a second, tabled indefinitely or simply voted down. While I disagree with their thinking, my experience has been that most of the people who fall into this thinking actually have their heart in the right place and there's nothing sinister about it. They are just wrong. Many have a limited education and when someone brings in some KJV only propaganda explaining everything that's wrong with the NIV, etc., they are unable to see that the material isn't completely accurate.
One should probably read multiple versions of the Bible to get a good understanding of its meanings. Unless of course you can read Greek and Hebrew and have a copy of the original manuscripts, not to mention a knowledge of the cultural relevance of the time.
By all means then, burn all the other versions of the Bible. [sarcasm intended]
I'd like to think that my zeal has never led me to say anthing so extreme. But I suspect that at some point, while still coming to better understanding of the truth, I've also destroyed God's Word in the life of another by my misguided testimony.
Every Christian is a hypocrite, because none of us lives up to the standard of Jesus Christ which we uphold. This man is also in need of grace, not only from God but also from other Christians. I pray that as truth is shared with him in love, he might be as broken and repentant for this sin as I am for mine.
Well the goo d news is that they only have 14 members
:D
I will gladly sell them a big heap of my book when it comes out.
I was at the bookstore yesterday and one of the clerks was doing the "remainders" ritual of ripping the covers off the unsold books. It made me feel a little nauseous. I wanted to go buy all those books so she didn't have to mangle them like that. I wanted to say, "You could at least do that somewhere private."
Anyway… sometimes people are hung up in the KJV and against all other Bibles and books because on a pretty deep level they already have a Bible that says what they want it to say, and they don't want to understand what it actually says better… either by discovering it for themselves with a more accessible translation or by having someone exposit it for them.
It's unfortunate that this Pastor holds the views that he does. However, it's worse that the main stream media chooses such an extremely negative example of Christianity to offer to the world. Are the activities of a church with only 14 members truly news worthy? It just seems to perpetuate the notion that the media has low regard for religion in general and Christianity in particular.
And my Christian friends wonder why I, as a lover of Jesus, don't want them to label me as Christian.
Thanks for shedding light on this.
I am SAD and MAD. Mad because God's church doesn't deserve to be represented this way. Why not show all the good things that are going on in churchs…the lives that are being redeemed, physical and spiritual healing, people being set free from strongholds, missions, the meeting of needs within the community and more.
I personally don't want to be anywhere close to the burning of God's HOLY WORD….it doesn't matter what translation it is. Two verses come to mind when I see something like this: Rom. 12:19 "Never take you own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, 'VENGEANCE IS MINE, I will repay,' says the Lord." I think I will stay far away from the burning of Bibles or any Christian books. I falter enough as it is but to Intentionally attack God's Word and Christian authors…I don't think I'll go there.
Then James 4:10 "But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE." I pray that I stand with the humble in the presence of God's grace.
This shows how dogmatic and wrongheaded some denominations can be. It's interesting how he and other "King James Only" Christians think that a version of the bible commissioned 1,600 years after the birth of Christ is the only inspired word of God. It's the original writings that were inspired, not any translation. It is the purpose of the translation to reliably convey what the original writings said. The newer translations are not only easier to read, but they make use of even earlier manuscripts that were not available when the original King James was written.
This is such a thought-provoking and sad video. People like these give Christians a bad name, and make us look stupid and ignorant. I feel sorry for these people that they are so limited in their views.
People like this seem to have no understanding of the concept that the Bible was originally written in another language, and that there are multiple renderings of certain passages.
Isn't it ironic that these good Christians will be dancing around a fire on Halloween night and burning holy books? LOL! We need to keep our sense of humor, too, even if it's mordant humor.
The idea of Christians dancing around a fire burning the Bible on "All Hallows' Eve" does have some sad humor/irony in it. That really did get me laughing, but incredibly sad.
I will tell people that just as Brittney Spears doesn't represent all artists and Lindsay Lohan doesn't represent all actors, some people do not accurately represent Christ.
Today, let's just try and let our actions deafen the noise (and sadly the smoke) of those misrepresentations of the Christ that we know.
Well, as the old hymn says "They will know we are Christians by our love!"
….Ahhh, so sad.
What happens to those who bring the "heretic" Bibles? Is there a steak (I mean, stake) prepared for them?
What a specimen of religious insanity! I'm just reading a great book, "Christianity's Dangerous Idea" by Alister McGrath and he focuses on how some of these strange and wild concepts have arisen from the time of the Reformation. It is sad and unfortunately some non-Christians will look at this as a representation of Christianity. But we live in a free country and freedom of speech guarantees that even crackpots can have their say. Thanks for sharing this.
I had a couple of thoughts (in addition to the "how could they do that"/"what a shame" ideas already expressed:
1. 14 members at the church. Wow, there's a shocker.
2. GREAT marketing! Talk about a good idea (though it may be the wrong one) to "get your name out there". With this going, they may get a few new people abd see 20% to 30% growth by next weekend…
I feel very frustrated at this. As a logical person, I could point to many flaws in their thinking, but I'll keep those to myself.
As someone else said, they still need grace the same as we all do. It still bothers me that this is how Christians get portrayed on mass media. For that matter, religious groups in general.
As for "religion" vs true faith, I think this video tells enough. Religion is rules. Faith is more like a journey.
Religion vs. faith. I like this topic. I think in the current days we do need more and more good spiritual life. I am glad to see people taking care of their spiritual self; Christians, Buddhists, Muslim any other people asking themselves every day why I was sent to the Earth and what is my mission here. Whenever I see good people in a religious organization I am happy praying with them. But I generally keep healthy distance from the religious organizations.
What scares me the most about this is not how deluded they are but that it shows how easily we can fall into the trap of believing something which is blatantly false.
I think back to all those Christian ministers who were KKK members, who genuinely believed, at the time, that they were right.
It makes me wonder not just IF I have some bad theology/ideals somewhere inside but rather WHERE my bad theology is.
If I try to believe that I am any less fallible than the man in this video, then I'm heading for a big fall!
Thank you for sharing this with us today, Michael.
I really hate it when I watch videos like this. It's truly a sad depiction of what the church is suppose to look like. I wonder if anyone in the congregation has ready any of the books or even wrote their own. Makes me stop and think about how religious the church is today about things. This is TAKING IT TOO FAR though!
I don’t give videos like this much thought. Really laughter is what ensues from these types of things.
I just find it ironic that the church is called “amazing grace” baptist church. Kind of missing that connection.
Check this website though and see how much traffic they got to their blog yesterday: http://fundamentaltop500.com/
…fourteen members…….
We know all about the iconoclasts…..these people are logoclasts….
I only wish I had the money to travel across the states to meet this man, take him out for lunch, and talk Jesus Christ. How very sad this situation is.
P.S. I've worked in media since I graduated, and this story is journalism at its worst. Short clips, no perspective, no nothing (though I know TV has its restraints).
That is truly frightening video. Great post–I could not agree with you more!
If I send them a copy of my book and they burn it (I'm sure they would!) do you think my sales would go up?
Pathetic.
I grew up in a KJV-only church, and i know the damage that view can inflict. What a massive growth spurt happened in my spiritual life when a friend gave me an NIV Bible and I realized I actually could understand God's Word! Such a shame to waste the first decade and a half of my life not understanding what God was trying to tell me.
But more than anything else, that view results from a complete lack of understanding of how Bible translation works. The KJV is not the most understandable translation available, and it's not the most accurate either. For people who want a word-for-word translation, try the ESV, the NAS, or even the NKJV. You'll be glad you did!
"Mark Driskol" urrrrr yea. that's very unfortunate.